Awww, the poor finance industry

03.15.12 - 10:58 am | Tim Redmond |

(63)

It must be so awful to be a recruiter in the finance industry these days. Seems college kids just aren't as interested in going to work for companies that crashed the U.S. economy, perpetuate the wealth gap and screw their clients. Besides, the money's just not as good any more: The folks at Goldman Sachs only got $125,000 in bonuses last year.

I wonder if anyone's talking about cutting their pensions. Oh, wait -- their greed helped cut other people's pensions!

Now maybe the smartest college students will think about doing something more productive for the world. Except that the ones who didn't start out rich will have trouble with that, since they'll graduate with about $100,000 in debt, and the only way to pay it off is to work for someplace that pays a shitload of money. So maybe Wall Street will be saved anyway.

Comments

Making money is bad

Which is why Tim chose to work for a provincial news outlet that carries no authority. I'm sure he's the type that grudgingly hands over a 10% tip when he eats at a restaurant that has real tables and chairs.

Posted by Chromefields on Mar. 15, 2012 @ 11:45 am

Ten percent tip? WTF?

Actually, I know a lot of people who work in bars and restaurants and drive cabs, and I always, always tip at least 20 percent. I've actually found, in my experience in going out to lunch with local luminaries (and not-so luminaries) that it's the rich people who tip the worst. The rest of us know what it's like to work for a living, and we tip generously. If you can't afford to do that, bring your lunch in a paper bag. The tip is part of the price of a meal out.

Posted by tim on Mar. 15, 2012 @ 12:55 pm

Ah yes, of course, the rich are worse, Tim.

Why am I not shocked that you miss no opportunity to diss the rich? Evidently you will take a free dinner from them and then still whine - although presumably you either have the good manners or lack of courage to say anything to their faces.

I have started tipping less now that wait staff are getting an extra 4% in health benefits. Since that saves them buying health insurance, they now need less tips to live off.

20% would be for spectacular service. Remember that a tip is for "going beyond the norm of what is required". It's not what wait staff get just for showing up.

10% to 15% makes more sense, and is fair when you take into account that extra 4%.

Posted by Guest on Mar. 15, 2012 @ 1:26 pm

I hope that the wait staff

I hope that the wait staff spit in your food.

Posted by marcos on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 8:38 am

You tip (or don't tip) AFTER you've eaten, not before.

You don't get out much, do you?

Posted by Guest on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 8:57 am

I return to restaurants

I return to restaurants knowing that the wait staff remember the good tip I gave last time and the service I get reflects that.

Perhaps if you only go to restaurants once, burn them down with chintzy tips, then your don't tip tactic works.

Posted by marcos on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 9:10 am

Wait staff turn over so fast that in practice it makes

little difference. My 11% tip plus their 4% windfall payment is exactly equal to the 15% I used to tip, so they are no worse off

Posted by Guest on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 10:12 am

You must not get out to

You must not get out to neighborhood restaurants often, huh?

Posted by marcos on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 10:25 am

I prefer the downtown joints.

Better food; less attitude.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 2:15 pm

You all really hate San

You all really hate San Francisco and really hate San Franciscans, huh?

I like eating at a wide range of the best day to day restaurants with global cuisines that are the best deals in the world and being treated like a king when I walk in. Something about having happy people serve me great, fresh good food that makes the dining experience that much more fulfilling.

The occasional gift of a delicacy doesn't hurt either.

And all for an extra 5% on top of the tab.

Posted by marcos on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 2:24 pm

The food is no better than before the 4% "tax" was added to the

bill. I resent paying that and so economize on the one part of the bill whose cost is variab;e and discretionary - the tip.

11% tip plus 4% medical seems fair to me. My customrs don't pay for my health insurance - I do.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 2:38 pm

How do you know that they

How do you know that they don't take extra care to ensure that I'm satisfied with my food, giving me better or more food just as they rightfully spit in yours?

And man doth not live by bread alone.

Posted by marcos on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 5:45 pm

Because they won't know how either of us will tip until

AFTER the food service. That's the thing with a tip, you see. It's a reward for doing an exceptional job, and not entitlement. This idea that you "have to" tip is just a scam that is imposed on us. Whether to pay a tip and how much to tip is 100% my decision, and tipping is not automatic.

And wait staff are the only people I tip.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 6:09 pm

Right, AFTER you don't tip is

Right, AFTER you don't tip is also BEFORE you come back the next time and get spit with your food for being a cheapskate prick.

Posted by marcos on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 7:02 pm

Except for having

the misfortune of serving you.

Posted by Eddie on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 1:32 pm

Yeah well, if you don't graduate high school then you'd better

either serve people like me for minimum wage or sleep in the gutter.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 1:45 pm

Extra bitter and entitled today.

Is the market down? Your net worth not climbing as fast as you would like?

My friends that work as servers in the restaurant industry have shared with me the fact that they can communicate telepathically with each other. So when a cheapskate like you enters their restaurant, they know ahead of time to spit in your food.

Posted by Eddie on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 2:10 pm

Market is almost at an all-time high. What sub-prime crisis?

Back when I was a kid, you tipped 10%. I'm not clear why it ever went to 15% as a standard, but the "Healthy SF" surcharge gives us the perfect excuse to fight the greed.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 2:36 pm

"Greedy" food service workers--

one of the greatest threats to modern society. Coming from an advocate of "free market" capitalism where "greed is good", except from those worse off than yourself, or whose line of work isn't up to your standards.

Let them eat cake.

Posted by Eddie on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 2:56 pm

Unlike most places, minimum wage applies even if you

get tips. Given that and SF's "highest in the nation" minimum wage, then it's clear that wait staff in Sf do way better than they would elsewhere.

So why should their customers pay for their health insurance? That's a matter between employer and employee.

That's why I pay the 4% out of the tip.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 3:09 pm

Your assertion that food servers here are

better off than elsewhere is so flawed (ie. astronomical SF cost of housing, etc.) that I won't argue against it.

More importantly, if the United States had national single payer or similar health care like all other similar countries, you wouldn't have to try to penalize low wage service workers with your miserliness or resent them for getting crappy health insurance as described by the above bartender, would you?

Instead, health insurance companies, drug companies and the whole healthcare industry suck profits from the system (with its existence insured by Obamacare) while tens of thousands of uninsured or underinsured needlessly die each year. It happened to a not-so-close friend of mine, who was refused care while he traveled because he was uninsured and died later that night from a treatable heart problem. Maybe he was 50.

Enjoy your 4%. May I suggest that you use some of your withheld tips to view "The Waiting Room", a recent documentary that poignantly and non-judgementally shows an important aspect of the ridiculousness of the United States's for-profit pay or die healthcare system.

Posted by Eddie on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 4:01 pm

My mistake. The descriptive comment

from the bartender about his health insurance is below.

Posted by Eddie on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 4:10 pm

I know some wait staff and they do very well financially.

They certainly do not need me to buy their health insurance for them.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 5:46 pm

Let me amend my suggestion for your SFBG comment page name

to "Heartless, Brainless And Cheap."

Posted by Eddie on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 10:04 am

Eddie's contributions here have devolved into

one-line utterances of abuse.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 10:15 am

All of that spit in your food

All of that spit in your food is diminishing your analytical capacity. Be glad that your wait staff enjoy the windfall of health care.

Posted by marcos on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 10:26 am

It's still the case that you tip AFTER eating.

That hasn't changed since I corrected you on that a few hours ago.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 1:12 pm

I always used to wonder at

I always used to wonder at those feminine products that describe two weeks into a four week cycle as two weeks before not two weeks after.

Just like 26 dec is the day after Christmas, that only means 364 more shopping days until next Christmas.

Enjoy that spit in yer food, cheapskate.

Posted by marcos on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 1:50 pm

Nah, if I were a cheapskate then

I wouldn't tip you at all.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 2:01 pm

I have a "real job" and don't

I have a "real job" and don't have to prostrate myself to the public for my meal ticket, thanks, but have had to work crap jobs in the past and remember what it was like.

Posted by marcos on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 2:09 pm

A "real job" that lets you post here a hundred times a day?

Yeah, right.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 2:33 pm

The code I get paid to write

The code I get paid to write iterates across massive data sets and affords me breaks in which to make quick posts.

Posted by marcos on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 2:41 pm

Yeah, tell that to your boss

who is probably half your age.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 2:57 pm

Wrong again, we've all been

Wrong again, we've all been around the block.

Posted by marcos on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 3:08 pm

Marcos, you do not need

to justify the use of your time to "Heartless, Brainless and Cheap."

Posted by Eddie on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 3:10 pm

Maybe, but he's bored in his "real" job.

So a little trolling is in order.

Posted by Guest on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 3:27 pm

Wall St. has cut tens of thousands of job so it's not a

shock that less people want to go there right now. There are less jobs. The markets are cyclical.

But there is no place on earth to make a lot of money quickly than finance and, whether Tim likes it or not, good traders, fund managers and deal-makers make a lot of money for working Americans in their pension funds, mutual funds, IRA's etc. But of course they only get paid when they call the markets right, unlike Tim who can whine about anything and he gets paid anyway from the cashflows of all those hooker ad's on SFBG.

Posted by Anonymous on Mar. 15, 2012 @ 12:01 pm

What extra 4%??? I tend bar,

What extra 4%??? I tend bar, earning minimum wage, and pay almost $200 a month for my nearly worthless health insurance. My "health care reimbursement" that the city requires covers maybe half that amount. But remember, I have a $5000 deductible, meaning that I pay out-of-pocket for nearly every medical expense I incur. I know it's been said a thousand times before, but try working a job based on tips for a year or two before you start spewing the belief that tipped workers are somehow making loads of money and don't need those tips to actually survive. While the difference between 10% and 20% may not be much to you, for many people it's the difference between eating dinner or paying rent. (rant complete.)

Posted by Guest on Mar. 15, 2012 @ 2:05 pm

Off subject

I know the article is about Wall Street, but I will chime in on the tip thing.

I rarely agree with Tim, but it tends to be those who are closer to the wages of the Bar Tenders/Cab drivers/Waiters etc. That tip the best, I have even left money on the bar when my rich friends don't leave a tip.

I am sure there are studies on this whole subject.

I think when you can relate to some one your are more likely to show empathy. I only hope for the day when I am so rich that I only tip 10%, untill then I will contiune to tip 20%.

Posted by Chris Pratt on Mar. 15, 2012 @ 2:21 pm

Actually, it's illogical to tip a percentage at all.

If I order a $30 steak, and you order a $15 hamburger, why should my waiter get twice the tip that yours does?

The steak might be more work and expense for the kitchen, but the effort involved in carrying it from kitchen to table is the same in both cases.

Likewise, alocohol is often an expensive part of any dinner, but it's the same work for a bottle of wine whether it's ten bucks or a hundred.

So I tip what I think is reasonable but I would never blindly tip 20% as that can lead to blatant over-tipping.

I also think it's important to vary the tip according to quality. The last thing we want is waiters developing a sense of entitlement to 20% regardless of what they do and how they do it.

Posted by Guest on Mar. 15, 2012 @ 4:00 pm

That's right Guest!

Over-tipping is a real threat, and we need to zealously guard against it, lest the working class start thinking they're entitled to good wages. The only ones entitled to anything are one-percenters like me who receive bonuses year in and year out no matter how the economy does. We're entitled to that because we are the job-creators who are responsible for creating this volatility- er, I mean dynamism -in the economy. Everybody else needs to be kept in their places lest they forget who's boss.

Posted by 1%er on Mar. 16, 2012 @ 8:05 am

Tips have nothing to do with wages

Wages are what you negotiate with your employer. If you don't like them, then you did a lousy job of negotiating.

Tips are what you optionally get if your service goes beyond the baseline level required. They will vary according to how well you please your customers. But they are always discretionary and are not en entitlement.

Posted by Guest on Mar. 16, 2012 @ 8:29 am

TIPS TISP TSIP STIP STPI SPTI

TIPS
TISP
TSIP
STIP
STPI
SPTI
SPIT

Posted by marcos on Dec. 12, 2012 @ 7:05 pm

Guest, the fact that you don't make as much as you would

like to is NOT a reason for me to tip you more. That's a matter between you and your employer and, if you don't like your pay, get another job.

A tip is for outstanding service, and not just for doing your job.

10-15% at a table, including thate xtra 4%, is pretty good. While at a bar or counter, a buck is reasonable.

Posted by Guest on Mar. 15, 2012 @ 3:25 pm

Reducing tips is ridiculous

The defender of the rich above suggests that it's okay to cut tips because someone's getting health insurance. I think the above bartender can explain the problem with that.

Posted by tim on Mar. 15, 2012 @ 2:17 pm

Always tip 20% unless the service blows

Then less. I once tipped $1 on a $100+ tab because the server was an awful bitch. But I always start out at 20% as the standard. I agree with Tim - if you can't afford it then don't go out to eat.

Posted by Guest on Mar. 15, 2012 @ 2:50 pm

What's funny is that when I was a kid, a 10% tip was the norm

then somebody somewhere decided that it should be 15%. now I see some folks are claiming it should be 20%. What next? 30%.

Tips should go up with inflation but that doesn't require a higher percentage rate. I used to just "double the tax" back when sales tax was 7% or so but you can;'t do that any more of course. (And there's no tip actually on a tax anyway, of course, so you deduce the tax before computing the tip).

From a customer's point of view, there's 9% or so sales tax, plus 4% to pay for the wait staff's healthcare. So it's perfectly reasonable to mentally deduct that 4% from the tip, which takes us bck to 16% even if you believe, as I do not, that 20% is reasonable.

Waiting tables hasn't gotten harder, so why have tips gone from 10% to 15% to 20% in my lifetime?

Posted by Guest on Mar. 15, 2012 @ 3:29 pm

That's like saying the

That's like saying the minimum wage should never go up. Service standards have gone up in the past years, as did the work and knowledge we put into our jobs, as should the tip percentage. It's ignorant to think that servers and bartenders deserve a lesser income because they choose to work outside of the societal norm of a cubicle job in an office. If service doesn't deserve an increase, neither does any employee deserve a raise in their chosen career. Unless you want your cost of meals to sky-rocket to cover paying servers more hourly, tips should reflect the times.

Posted by Guest on Mar. 15, 2012 @ 3:40 pm

But the minimum wage goes up with inflation.

The rate at which it is paid only goes up with prices and wages generally.

So if inflation goes up by 10% then the minimum wage will go up by 10%.

But what's happened with tips is that inflation is 10% but tips went from 10% to 15% to 20% of an amount (the cost of a dinner) that was already inflating in price anyway. That's a double whammy.

I have no problem with wages and tips going up with inflation. I do have a problem with the diea that the rate over and above that that we shoulld pay also goes up.

Think about taxes. I pay more income tax each year because I earn more because of inflation. but the RATE doesn't go up. Big difference.

Posted by Guest on Mar. 15, 2012 @ 3:54 pm

The one true sign of a good

The one true sign of a good tipper:

People who have worked for tips (past or present) are the best tippers.

Posted by Troll the 14th on Mar. 17, 2012 @ 10:35 am